Did Bill W. really get sober...

[1day2day]

I haven't (am trying not to) form an opinion on this without the facts, but I wanted to see what the group members here think. I know its not appropriate to bring up in a meeting, so I'm tossing it out here.

Did Bill actually get sober? To be sure, I don't think he ever drank again. But many legitimate sources have noted that Bill did take LSD before it became illegal numerous times. I have also read that he smoked marijuana occasionaly.

Add to that the list of all of his so-called affairs with women throughout the course of his life in recovery. He even left a portion of his will to one of his mistresses. There was even a so called "watch" committee who shadowed Bill in public to steer him away from 13th stepping newcomer girls.

I am not trying to spread rumors here. Everything I am bringing up is information I have gleaned from published and verified sources.

I am curious what your thoughts are on this. And does it affect your view of AA?

Thanks!

[angussdundee]

Since Bill's not here to defend himself against the huge amounts of rumors that have done the rounds since his death, I prefere to get on with my own recovery and let the rest get on with theirs.
Even if some of those rumors are true you can't change the facts and if they're not true, they aren't worth your attention.
I say this to the scandal mongers, and there are many of them - why try to shoot the messenger? It's the message that he carried that's worth further investigation , not the messenger... :D

Anguss.

[alfee]

i guess it depends on who you ask... if you ask someone who's grateful for the 12 steps having a part in saving their life, the answer would be i am very grateful for all bill's, (and the rest of the first 100's) contributions... but if you ask someone who hates Alcoholics Anonymous (for whatever reason) then the answer would be no... jack trimpey would probably go so far as to say noone in AA ever stayed sober, he's dedicated his life and his RR program to the bashing of AA... and the author of the "orange papers" was even worse than that... what fascinates me is the fact that so many have went out of their way to blackmark the man, but he co-founded a program that doesn't have to defend itself... the rule in AA is simple... if you don't want what we so freely offer, there's the door... we'll be here when your ready to come back... but always remember, Keep Coming Back!

[1day2day]

I agree with you both. You see, when I came in to this program a few ears back, I was looking for any help possible. A good thing. But I was enamored by the cult of personality surrounding Bob and Bill. A bad thing.

Since I am judgmental and selfish (unlike most alcoholics ;D), I was shocked and heartbroken when I learned more about Bill. I let that tarnish my ideas of what sprung from he, Bob, and the others.

Now, I am reengaged with the program, and yet realize that the founders are not the program. In my mind, there is no way I could call myself completely sober while simultaneously puffing weed, dropping acid, being unfaithful to my wife, doing s?ances, and chain smoking. God has simply laid a higher standard on me to work toward. I still really love Bob and just got done reading The Good Old Timers. Great story. And I really am thankful for Bill's contribution. But I must be diligent enough to test and understand Bill's "philosophy" rather than acting like a newly born bird, that will eat whatever gets near its mouth.

I am feeling called to focus on the getting well part. The part that brings God back into my life in a real way. The part that takes me out of the insanity and powerlessness, and into the sanity and solution.

[alfee]

this was copied from an AA website in Texas.
http://www.texasdistrict5.com

Did Bill Wilson use LSD?

Question: Is it true that A.A. co-founder Bill Wilson used LSD after he stopped drinking?

Answer: Yes, back when it was still legal in The United States and Canada, Bill used LSD in a clinical setting. At the time LSD was an experimental drug tried in many types of therapies. It was done in the company of Canadian pharmaceutical researchers who were investigating potential clinical uses for this new drug.

Bill first took LSD on August 29, 1956. According to Pass It On: The story of Bill Wilson and How the A.A. Message Reached the World, published by A.A. World Services, Inc., Bill was enthusiastic about his experience; he felt it helped him eliminate many barriers erected by the self, or ego, that stand in the way of one's direct experience of the cosmos and of God. He thought he might have found something that could make a big difference to the lives of many who still suffered.

Bill is quoted as saying:

It is a generally acknowledged fact in spiritual development that ego reduction makes the influx of God's grace possible. If, therefore, under LSD we can have a temporary reduction, so that we can better see what we are and where we are going ? well, that might be of some help. The goal might become clearer. So I consider LSD to be of some value to some people, and practically no damage to anyone. It will never take the place of any of the existing means by which we can reduce the ego, and keep it reduced.

See pages 370 & 371 in Pass It On.

if i stay sober until april 11, i'll be clean and sober 3 years... i smoke over a pack of cigarettes every day, and have no desire or plans of quitting... i won't even go into the other subjects you mentioned about the unfaithfulness etc... thats irrellevant to sobriety... that's a personal thing... that's like someone telling me i'm not sober because i eat transfat and don't go to a catholic church... i've never heard the story of the weed smoking bill, and as far as the story nurse cheevers told of Bill W asking for whiskey on his death bed... that just varifies to me how powerful this disease actually is... in my subconscience mind, i am an alcoholic... left to my own resources, i will drink again... i must have devine intervention.

[WolfM]

The subject of what Bill W did or did not do is between Bill, his sponsor, and God.

Wolf M

[Pete G]

Whether or not you or anyone else stays sober has little to do with me staying sober. Thank you Bill
Most sober people I would like to emulate are to filled with gratitude to worry about this. I might suggest reading all of the books and studying them with a sponsor or something.
Maybe a history search on LSD might help; check out its intended uses durring the day. You might be surprized and discover you didn't have to ask the question either.
Pete G

[1day2day]

All good points. It is interesting the responses, and how defensive some folks are. The initial post said nothing about whether or not it mattered to one's personal recovery if Bill relapsed on drugs. Of course it makes no difference! If Bill taking LSD leads me to think I can, than I am not exactly working the program, now am I! ???

But here is why the question is relatively important. There is one group in particular in my area where Bill is venerated. He is spoken about with reverence (not mind you the reverence I think appropriate for the great things he did, but a hushed-tone awe). In that group, you would be physically removed for discussing Bill in any other way than they do. We must accept the limitations of those who came before us. We must also realize that nothing built with human minds and imagination is perfect. No not even AA. But does that make it bad, or useless, or worthless, or not to be cherished as a gift from God?!?!?!
Heck No!!!

However you think it, Bill's relapses (and that's what they were, don't kid yourself) are there to prove to me how great a man he was, and yet how imperfect and feeble he was. I am capable of great things through God's help, I am equally capable of going off the deep end if I do not maintain a healthy spiritual focus and practice.

We of AA have a debt of gratitude to Bill, and nothing more. our focus is on moving this forward to the newcomer who still suffers. Just like I would not be here had some one not shared it with me, who had someone share with them, who had someone.... with whom Dr. Bob shared it, who had Bill share it, who had Ebby share it...

[IndianG]

Bill W stayed sober and died a happy man. :)