IS GOD IN OUR FORUM, OR NOT ???

[jeffw]

LORD,
Thank you for this forum, and helping us all stay sober and on the beam.
Are you in this forum are you going to increase the participation ? It looks slow here to
me, can you not do something to stimulate the membership towards individual participation,
and increase it's sober traffic, ?
Standing by,
Your friend,
Jeffw

(You know....) :)

[tamonmark]

God most certainly cannot be manipulated in any way, and being the stubborn humans that we are, we try anyway.

[warriorofluv]

The spiritual guides are in place in all walks we take. Do we see them? ;) Not always as clear as we wished them to be. We sometimes must take acton with the guidance of our best. And that is all is expected. Remember, expecttions in humans causes resentments when we want what we want. To be AWARE that is one of the keys to my personal spirituality. It is what it is.

[Pythonpappy]

The spiritual guides are in place in all walks we take. Do we see them? ;) Not always as clear as we wished them to be. We sometimes must take acton with the guidance of our best. And that is all is expected. Remember, expecttions in humans causes resentments when we want what we want. To be AWARE that is one of the keys to my personal spirituality. It is what it is.

Hey Warrior, ... Very true what you said ... Your response is to a very old post, and it would seem the first person in this thread may still have had personal issues to work out ... Hope he did ...

God resides in every human, and it takes longer for some of us to realize that than others ... It's only when we invite Him in to lead our way of 'thinking' that He performs what would seem miracles to/and for us ...

We each have our own journey ... we can choose to be led by our 'Higher Power' (God to me) or we can choose to do things the way we want to see them ... (the latter didn't work for me!) ... But if I choose God's way, then 'patience' is most definitely required ...


Welcome to this 'Recovery' site ... look forward to more of your thoughts ...

God Bless,:42:
Pythonpappy

[MajestyJo]

Thank you both for sharing. I know for me, it is important that I remember that it is the God of MY understanding. Everyone has a right to an understanding of God the way they see God.

I found that God was an old tape. He was what I had been taught in church and I myself taught Sunday School. My God in today, is so much bigger, at least in my eyes. I had to make God personal. I couldn't listen to those old tapes. I had to find out who God was to me and went on a spiritual quest at one year sober.

I always had my faith from childhood growing up. That faith grew, and God became real and so much more than anything that I had ever thought of growing up. It doesn't matter what I call Him. I often say Him because it saves on the typing (He/She/It), and on any given day, my God can be all things. The counselor, guide, disciplinary, the good orderly direction I need each day. The loving tender care and nurtering I need for the body and the soul, the comforter and the strength I need to get through troubled times. The one I communicate the most with is the Spirit within. The Spirit of Light and Love that resides in me and to my way of thinking, to anyone who surrenders and asks for help. The Spirit is there. It is about me building a relationship with it and going within to get my answers. We can do what I can't do alone.

[Pythonpappy]

Thank you both for sharing. I know for me, it is important that I remember that it is the God of MY understanding. Everyone has a right to an understanding of God the way they see God.

I found that God was an old tape. He was what I had been taught in church and I myself taught Sunday School. My God in today, is so much bigger, at least in my eyes. I had to make God personal. I couldn't listen to those old tapes. I had to find out who God was to me and went on a spiritual quest at one year sober.

I always had my faith from childhood growing up. That faith grew, and God became real and so much more than anything that I had ever thought of growing up. It doesn't matter what I call Him. I often say Him because it saves on the typing (He/She/It), and on any given day, my God can be all things. The counselor, guide, disciplinary, the good orderly direction I need each day. The loving tender care and nurtering I need for the body and the soul, the comforter and the strength I need to get through troubled times. The one I communicate the most with is the Spirit within. The Spirit of Light and Love that resides in me and to my way of thinking, to anyone who surrenders and asks for help. The Spirit is there. It is about me building a relationship with it and going within to get my answers. We can do what I can't do alone.

WOW Jo, ... You just woke up an old memory of my way of thinking from my past ... When I began to work this program, I began to realize something I'd never thought of before ... What was God to me all those years ago?

I have come to realize that I was taught from chidhood, who I was supposed to think God was, ... I was told over and over again what my God ought to be ... Everyone was telling me that my concept of God, should be what their concept was ... Until I invited Him into my conscious heart, I'd never really known the true God of my understanding ... It's so much bigger than this 'big guy in the sky' kind of thinking ...

Page 55, BB, "for deep down in every man, woman, and child, is the fundamental idea of God. It may be obscured by calamity, by pomp, by worship of other things, but in some form or other it is there. For faith in a Power greater than ourselves, and miraculous demonstrations of that power in human lives, are facts as old as man himself.

We finally saw that faith in some kind of God was a part of our make-up, just as much as the feeling we have for an old friend. Sometimes we had to search fearlessly, but He was there. He was as much a fact as we were. We found the Great Reality deep down within us."

This is so insightful, and it was only through 'total honesty' that my search in life for God ended when I found I had Him in me all the while ... He was just waiting there, for me to 'awaken' to this fact ...


Thank you Jo and may God Bless you,:42:
Pythonpappy

[JanetL]

WOW Jo, ... You just woke up an old memory of my way of thinking from my past ... When I began to work this program, I began to realize something I'd never thought of before ... What was God to me all those years ago?

I have come to realize that I was taught from chidhood, who I was supposed to think God was, ... I was told over and over again what my God ought to be ... Everyone was telling me that my concept of God, should be what their concept was ... Until I invited Him into my conscious heart, I'd never really known the true God of my understanding ... It's so much bigger than this 'big guy in the sky' kind of thinking ...

Page 55, BB, "for deep down in every man, woman, and child, is the fundamental idea of God. It may be obscured by calamity, by pomp, by worship of other things, but in some form or other it is there. For faith in a Power greater than ourselves, and miraculous demonstrations of that power in human lives, are facts as old as man himself.

We finally saw that faith in some kind of God was a part of our make-up, just as much as the feeling we have for an old friend. Sometimes we had to search fearlessly, but He was there. He was as much a fact as we were. We found the Great Reality deep down within us."

This is so insightful, and it was only through 'total honesty' that my search in life for God ended when I found I had Him in me all the while ... He was just waiting there, for me to 'awaken' to this fact ...


Thank you Jo and may God Bless you,:42:
Pythonpappy

Thanks Pappy Goob for your input here.
Let me tell you about my trip over the river and thru the woods with religion and God.
I was raised that it was detrimental for me not to go to church and believe in God and especially Jesus, because thru him all things are possible. I was "saved" at 10 years old at bible school. And to this day I am convinced it was some kind of magnificent experience for me. One lady at the church told my mother that if any child had ever been saved that day it was me. That I looked like an angel. I do not even remember going to the alter. I think I kind of floated.
Anyway, I was a very hurt and troubled child at that time...but I was a very responsible child. God helped me thru so many troubled times growing up (of which I care not to talk about right now.)
As life moved on and I became more educated and informed i.e. all the differing religions in the world...all the cults...all the fanatics such as those that crashed into the twin towers on 9/11...all the hypocracy existing within the church and in church people...I began to wonder...I began to question my beliefs...was I just a troubled child in need of something bigger than myself?
I question and wonder:
Can the bible really be taken literally? Like Noah's Ark? Come on! Lot and his incestual behavior with his daughters to repopulate? Scriputures that have been deleted by the church long past. Mental illness is not demon possession either. Christmas is not Dec.25th but the winter solstice and the darkest time of year...Easter isn't eggs but all filtered into our religion from other times in beliefs of the pagans,celts,druids...sun rise services are derived from sun worshiping in the past but infiltrated to represent Christ rising...people were not willing to give up thier festivities, so they entertwined them to what we have in the present... Or were we, as a society just hanging onto something to believe in, because we need something bigger than ourselves? Taking lessons from primitive middle eastern tribesman 2000 years ago?

Had I been somewhat brainwashed by this religion in my way of thinking? And by the time life got threw with me...I was and still am on the fence with being somewhat agnostic.
More recently, I have returned to the Lord that I knew in my childhood heart. That is the only one I knew that I could tap into. It is a very spiritual place and there is where my changed heart is. I think maybe it is the universal God of all...
I still have trouble, when I hear fanaticism and over the top simplicity in the teachings, but I believe in the God of my understanding. Personally, I do not think that heaven,narvana or whatever is like much of what we have been taught, nor is many of our traditional beliefs. Maybe the bible was written simply and complexly for all to try an understand. Who knows...all I know is what is in my heart. My father used to tell me to believe nothing you see and only half of what you read...I think I'll go with that.

Love sent your way,
JanetL

[Pythonpappy]

As life moved on and I became more educated and informed i.e. all the differing religions in the world...all the cults...all the fanatics such as those that crashed into the twin towers on 9/11...all the hypocracy existing within the church and in church people...I began to wonder...I began to question my beliefs...was I just a troubled child in need of something bigger than myself?

Had I been somewhat brainwashed by this religion in my way of thinking? And by the time life got threw with me...I was and still am on the fence with being somewhat agnostic.

Personally, I do not think that heaven,narvana or whatever is like much of what we have been taught, nor is many of our traditional beliefs.

Maybe the bible was written simply and complexly for all to try an understand.

Who knows...all I know is what is in my heart. My father used to tell me to believe nothing you see and only half of what you read...I think I'll go with that.

Love sent your way,
JanetL

OH WOW, ... GeeWillickers ... You sure know how to throw the 'ball' onto someone else's court don't you? ... Oh Boy, I don't know if I can do justice in responding to this at this time of the morning ... (wish I'd have checked this out sooner)

Okay, 1st of all ... ALL religions are 'man-made' ... (there are NO religions mentioned in the Bible) ... And I do believe that the Bible IS the inspired 'Word of God' ... Yes, there is hypocracy in the churches and in those who profess to be christians or other religious affiliates ... The Good Book warns us of these very conditions and situations ... and I feel a 'person' should read and study the Good Book and learn first hand what Jesus was all about and His teachings of how to reach a spiritual level of consciousness that surpasses all human understanding ...

One would be an idiot to 'listen to and take the word of' any evangelist in todays times without personally checking the scriptures to insure the accuracy of what you're being told ...

Ya know, ... like you, I found that after all these years, that I was more agnostic than I realized (before AA) ... (like you also, I witnessed people in church professing one thing, then during the week they were as evil as anything I'd ever known) ... What nailed it down for me, the very concept of God I could wrap my arms around, was a book I was given by a friend, early in my sobriety ... When I read this book, I was absolutely blown away ... It all made sense to me ... the spiritual nature of our very souls and the spiritual nature of God became so vivdly clear ...

That revelation open the door for me to accept all AA's principles and I have remained here ever since ...

The Bible was not written so much as for us to easily understand as it was to lead us to a higher understanding of the spirit we have within us ... and to 'spellout' certain things we should strive for in life to achieve a higher consciousness of God's presence ...

I'm not so sure of your Dad's 'saying' to; "believe nothing you see and only half of what you read" ideology ... I think there's a danger in that kind of reasoning ... on the mountaintops in Colorado are some of the most spectacular displays of nature that you have to see to be believed and the sky at night is filled with more stars than you can possibly imagine and the sunrises are something that'll make you weak in the knees ... and then people have the audacity to question whether there is a God or not ...

You touched on several others things that I just can't dedicate time to right now, but I think this is a great topic to discuss as long as we both keep an 'open mind' ...

Okay, after all the drinking I did in my life, I'm down to two 'brain cells' left ... yesterday I lost one of them and today the other one took off to go look for the other one ...

Love you lots and God Bless,:42:
Goober

P.S. The 'must-read' book I alluded to above was authored by 'William P. Young' and is titled "The Shack".

[MajestyJo]

Read the Shack, a good book. I have a friend who says, He has two brain cells left, when they are aligned he has a good day.

I am grateful that mine were rejuvinated enough for me to play bridge again which I had to give up for 20 years because of my addiction.

[JanetL]

OH WOW, ... GeeWillickers ... You sure know how to throw the 'ball' onto someone else's court don't you? ... Oh Boy, I don't know if I can do justice in responding to this at this time of the morning ... (wish I'd have checked this out sooner)

Okay, 1st of all ... ALL religions are 'man-made' ... (there are NO religions mentioned in the Bible) ... And I do believe that the Bible IS the inspired 'Word of God' ... Yes, there is hypocracy in the churches and in those who profess to be christians or other religious affiliates ... The Good Book warns us of these very conditions and situations ... and I feel a 'person' should read and study the Good Book and learn first hand what Jesus was all about and His teachings of how to reach a spiritual level of consciousness that surpasses all human understanding ...

One would be an idiot to 'listen to and take the word of' any evangelist in todays times without personally checking the scriptures to insure the accuracy of what you're being told ...

Ya know, ... like you, I found that after all these years, that I was more agnostic than I realized (before AA) ... (like you also, I witnessed people in church professing one thing, then during the week they were as evil as anything I'd ever known) ... What nailed it down for me, the very concept of God I could wrap my arms around, was a book I was given by a friend, early in my sobriety ... When I read this book, I was absolutely blown away ... It all made sense to me ... the spiritual nature of our very souls and the spiritual nature of God became so vivdly clear ...

That revelation open the door for me to accept all AA's principles and I have remained here ever since ...

The Bible was not written so much as for us to easily understand as it was to lead us to a higher understanding of the spirit we have within us ... and to 'spellout' certain things we should strive for in life to achieve a higher consciousness of God's presence ...

I'm not so sure of your Dad's 'saying' to; "believe nothing you see and only half of what you read" ideology ... I think there's a danger in that kind of reasoning ... on the mountaintops in Colorado are some of the most spectacular displays of nature that you have to see to be believed and the sky at night is filled with more stars than you can possibly imagine and the sunrises are something that'll make you weak in the knees ... and then people have the audacity to question whether there is a God or not ...

You touched on several others things that I just can't dedicate time to right now, but I think this is a great topic to discuss as long as we both keep an 'open mind' ...

Okay, after all the drinking I did in my life, I'm down to two 'brain cells' left ... yesterday I lost one of them and today the other one took off to go look for the other one ...

Love you lots and God Bless,:42:
Goober

P.S. The 'must-read' book I alluded to above was authored by 'William P. Young' and is titled "The Shack".

Hey Goober,

First of all, ROFL at your being down to one brain cell...

I always strive to keep an open mind...that is one of my downfalls (to an extent,) because I have to be careful, that I am not so open minded (at times) that my brain falls out,lol.

Also there is no doubt that in the majesty of nature such as your mention of Colorado mountains as being absolutely beautiful and even breathtaking. I have been there. There are also some very beautiful places in the Northwest i.e. Washington,Oregon,Northern California, and British Columbia, Canada (some of my favorite places.) To me nature and such places on earth are both very inspiring and cruel. By cruel, I mean the forces of nature, and the nature of natural nature...? Make sense?

Also I think what my dad was referring to, when he stated to "believe nothing you see"... as in people i.e. sometimes conclusions can be drawn without knowing all the facts from what is seen...and "believe half of what you read," since books are written by people not everything written is factual...so it is up to the person to be broad minded enough to draw thier own conclusion.

Anyway, now that that is aside...Whew! WOW! How odd and strange it is to me, that you would mention the book "The Shack." This is the second time upon my religious journey that that book has been brought to my attention. Is that a God thing, I do not know?
Reason being...about a year or so ago I was talking on my home town "Hot Topix" forum (every city has one...just google in your town or city ______Hot Topix.) I had posted on the forum on the topic of "Is there a God." I had said, basically what I did in my previous post here, except then I had also said blatantly..."some people just have imaginary friends." WOW! I know.

Well, apparently one of the posters on "_____Hot Topix" figured out who I was, sense I had mentioned my mother's passing at that time. And one day, I was visiting my mothers grave and left on her stone was a book in a gallon sized zip lock baggy with a note enclosed. I opened the note and it read, "Janet, I did not know any other way to reach you, except to leave this here. The man wrote, I have been troubled by your comments on "Hot Topix" regarding your belief in God. I do not know how your life has been but has it been so cruel to you to cause you to doubt the way you do? I was led to leave this book here for you, and I have been praying earnestly for you. The book, I have enclosed is one of the most comprehensive books and helpful books I have ever read on this very subject. I hope that you will read it and come to understand God and religion, as it had helped me. God bless you and I'm praying for you ...signed ____."

Personally, I thought it was a very sweet and nice thing for someone I hardly knew to do. The book enclosed was called, "The Shack." I started to read it, but quickly lost interest and put it aside. I have been meaning to pick it up again, when things such as sobriety were less pressing.

Your ironically referring to that book again blows my mind. Apparently, it is meant for me to read it. And since this, I plan on it. As a matter of fact, I'm going to go find it now. That book must be something else!

Thank you Goober for getting back to me on this subject.
What do you think about such a coincidence?

Love sent,
JanetL

[Mountainman]

God resides in every human
Pythonpappy

interesting thought on this early morning
does he reside in (every) human ??



(John 8:44-47 ESV)
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”




John 8:44 The Devil was a murderer from the beginning: that is, the Devil incited Cain to kill Abel (cf. 1 John 3:15). He does not stand in the truth, i.e., it is not the realm that he lives and acts and thinks in. He is the father of lies: at the fall, the Devil blatantly contradicted God’s word (Gen. 3:3–4; cf. Gen. 2:17).


John 8:47 You do not hear in the sense of hearing, believing, and following (see note on v. 43).

*********************************************

(Matthew 7:23 ESV)

And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Matt. 7:23 then will I declare to them. Jesus says that he will one day exercise the prerogative of condemning people to hell, something that only God can do (cf. note on John 5:22). Though these condemned prophets appeared to belong to Jesus, they were never truly saved, for Jesus never knew them (cf. note on Matt. 7:21–23).

[Mountainman]

Our God has chosen people in Christ, and He chose them before the foundation of the world. Their names are written in the Lamb's book of life, and in His time, effectually calls them unto salvation. Others he leaves to themselves, and we are told He has this right as Creator. This determination of God was made before they were ever born, before they had done good or evil. Esau and Jacob, twin sons of Isaac and Rebecca, one blessed, the other rejected, is a case in point. "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth." Rom. 9:11
http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/bible/sovereignty.html


The fact is that God is Sovereign. As such, He reserves the right to have mercy on whom He will and to pass over others, leaving them in their hostile disposition against Him. God revealed Himself to Abraham in a way He did not for his neighbor down the street. His electing love on Israel was not bestowed on the Canaantites or the Philistines. After His resurrection, Christ appeared to Saul of Tarsus on the road to Damascus but not to Pontius Pilate in his bedroom. The whole Bible speaks of a God who is Sovereign in the way He bestows mercy.

All people receive some mercy - God was very merciful to Esau, but ultimately Esau did not receive the exact same mercy as his brother Jacob. God sends His rain to all - on the just and the unjust, but He bestows His effectual redeeming love only on some. Not everyone is saved. Some do perish. The fact that even one sinner will be numbered amongst the heavenly host because he was redeemed by the sheer mercy of God should amaze us. The fact is that this number will not be just a few, but will be so vast that no man can count it.
http://www.reformationtheology.com/2009/01/jacob_i_loved_but_esau_i_hated.php

[saved1]

For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways.” Psalm 91:11 (TNIV)

In his work Ethandune and Other Poems, James Williams writes, “Man is immortal till his work is done.” We can trust that our lives are in God’s hands, in God’s plans. He won’t take us until He determines it’s time. He doesn’t go by what we think we still need to do or regrets on what we haven’t yet done.

Jesus said, “Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to your life?” He is ultimately in control of your life. But that thought shouldn’t make us apprehensive. Instead, we trust that Jesus knows what He’s doing. If we continue to obey Him and live each day to the fullest, we’ll know that He’ll be pleased with the way we numbered our days.

Faith step: Do you worry about your life, your husband’s life, your children’s lives? It’s natural to want to protect them, but we also need to remember that Jesus is the ultimate protector. Surrender your worry to Jesus, daily if you have to, and instead focus your energy on living each day as if it’s your last.
:undecided:, :162: , :confused: , :281:. :idea: why not?

By Camy Tang
This devotional is excerpted from Mornings with Jesus.

[Pythonpappy]

Personally, I thought it was a very sweet and nice thing for someone I hardly knew to do. The book enclosed was called, "The Shack." I started to read it, but quickly lost interest and put it aside. I have been meaning to pick it up again, when things such as sobriety were less pressing.

Your ironically referring to that book again blows my mind. Apparently, it is meant for me to read it. And since this, I plan on it. As a matter of fact, I'm going to go find it now. That book must be something else!

Thank you Goober for getting back to me on this subject.
What do you think about such a coincidence?

Love sent,
JanetL

BooBoo, ... I don't much believe in coincidences ... You were meant to read this book and I pray you do ...

It' starts off as a sad story and then about half way thru, look out, cause it'll grab your attention and you'll not want to put it down until you finish it ... There is SO MUCH TO LEARN FROM THIS BOOK, I've gone back and highlighted a lot of it just like studying in college ...

I am not kidding about the IMPACT of this book on my very CONCEPT of God ... It literally opened the door to my heart and allowed the 'Spirit of God ' to enter ... Hope it has the same impact on you too!

Love you and God Bless,:42:
Goober

P.S. Thanks for putting your Dad's quote in the right context for me ... it more sense when you see what it is in reference to!

[Pythonpappy]

interesting thought on this early morning
does he reside in (every) human ??



(John 8:44-47 ESV)
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”


*********************************************

(Matthew 7:23 ESV)

And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Matt. 7:23 then will I declare to them. Jesus says that he will one day exercise the prerogative of condemning people to hell, something that only God can do (cf. note on John 5:22). Though these condemned prophets appeared to belong to Jesus, they were never truly saved, for Jesus never knew them (cf. note on Matt. 7:21–23).

OK MountainMan, ... I'm trying to keep an open mind, but I'm not sure who of us out here really has a handle on the Theological aspects of what God's intentions were then or are now ... And YES, I do believe that God's spirit does reside in us all ... If we choose not to believe or accept this fact, then Jesus will turn to His Father on judgement day and acknowledge we turned away from Him while being mortal ... and Say "I never knew you" Not because He didn't try or wasn't there, but because we refused to let Him in(our hearts) ...(He can't come to know us, actually meaning we never came to know Him, if we refuse to acknowledge He even exists) .... (To 'know' meaning for us to have accepted Him and live our lives according to His will)

"They were never truly saved, for Jesus never knew them" ... I see that as 'never' in their lifetime ... because you can't reject Him if you've not yet been born ... Now there may be some who are predestined by God to cause certain events to occur, but that is His business and I don't wish to second guess this nor even waste my time trying to understand ... Because a person could literally, as some have tried, spend a lifetime to try and understand God and His actions and methods ... It's a futile attempt ...

And there are those out there that would have you believe they're from God and speak His truth when in fact they are merely serving their own purposes ... whether it be for popularity, money, or power of having control over others who seem to be mindless in their own right ... (gullible)

I really don't see any productive 'reasoning' this deep into disecting exactly what God meant with certain passages in the Bible ... Our (my) purpose here on this forum is to incite others to read the 'Good Book' themselves and follow their own hearts to wherever it leads them ... (hopefully through prayer and meditation) ...


May God be with us and bless us all,:42:
Pappy